By Thomas Howard, Jr. (Denver, Colorado) Feb 1 | Today I was inspired. It happens quite frequently in my work at the Foundation. Usually it comes in the form of everyday people who are simply living their lives, and in the process, working to make the world a better place for everyone. This morning, my inspiration came from an uncommon source: a rock star.
When I speak to high school students, the number one reason I get for why people don’t stand up for the queer kid who is being bullied, is that they are afraid that others are going to think they are gay, or lesbian. I always respond the same way, “So what”? Is what someone else assumes about them more important than sticking up for someone who is being marginalized or hurt? The rock star doesn’t seem to think so.
Middle school was hell for me. I was picked on almost every hour of every day. If one person had come up to me in public or private and said, “I want you to know that I saw what happened to you, and it’s not OK with me,” it would have made more of a difference in my life than I can express. Supporting others does not always entail a grand gesture. Sometimes just acknowledging that we saw something, and it is not OK with us, is more than enough.
Rob Thomas has been a consistent voice for equality. A straight man who stands for equality for all people. I hope that Rob’s thoughts in the interview below will inspire others to stand up and become vocal straight allies.
T: Hi Rob.
RT: Hey Thomas. How are you?
T: I am very, very well. So our chat today is going to go on the Foundation's website for LGBT and allied young people, MatthewsPlace.com, which was created by Judy and Dennis Shepard and the Foundation as a way to provide resources to help young people lead healthy, productive, hate-free lives.
RT: Right, which is looking more and like a reality. You know, I am more and more amazed because I've seen more and more high school aged kids that are openly gay, and proud to be gay, which I think is the most amazing thing. You look back at just 10 years ago at the difference. You know, look at me at 38 years old, I was in high school when that just wasn't, you know, didn't seem like a possibility.
T: Right. And Judy would tell you that it's because [today's students] haven't grown up in a time where they haven't seen someone like themselves on television or represented in pop culture.
RT: Of course, yeah. Of course.
T: You wrote a really great article for the Huffington Post last May and in it you say that straight people must stand up and be a voice for gay people. And I guess that's, for us, that's such a profound statement and your voice was so profound because individuals like yourself, we don't see very often. So why do you feel it's so important for, quote-unquote, straight allies to make their voices be heard in support of LGBT people?
RT: I think mostly it's because we're talking about a civil issue.
T: Right.
RT: You know. And I think, we, living in a free nation, one of the things you accept in a free nation is the idea that you have to … let other people live a life you don't believe in so that you can live a life you believe in. And that's going to happen, that works for me. I was watching the Daily Show and I was completely blown away by all the people on the side of religion. This isn't against religious people because I know many religious people that are open to gay lifestyles … but the ones that were on there --- venomously! --- What was so great, Jon Stewart, he always gets it right on the head, there is this African-American woman who was just going off about how hard she fought so she can have these rights and she would have the right to stand up and tell gays that they don't have rights. And that just blew me away, that things can be that one-sided. I think that as soon as you look at it as a civil issue, you realize that everybody has to be able to play along. And that means even if you don't agree with it you have to give everybody their rights. I don't agree with handguns. But I understand that responsible people are going to own them and they have a right to own them. And I'll fight for people. I'm not a hardcore Christian but I'll fight for everybody to worship in any way they believe.
T: Right.
RT: That's what America is supposed to be about.
T: Right. Why do you think this issue is so polarizing?
RT: I think it scares people. I mean … I don't think that they think, actually, you know? I mean when you look, let's talk about the --- I'm trying to think of their phrasing of it --- the marriage, as in the institution of marriage. They're protecting the institution of marriage. Then you look at TV and see shows like "I Want to Marry a Millionaire" and "The Bachelor." And then, you see straight weddings going, you know, to hell in a handbasket left and right. I'm not quite sure where the worry is. Like I'm not sure: are they worried if the kids are going to be gay if they have gay parents? Because I don't know. None of my gay friends have gay parents. I'm not sure.
T: Well none of us LGBT people would be here without our straight parents.
RT: Yeah. Well hey, listen, we're all fans of DNA. But you know I'm blown away all the time by the idea that what two people do, what anybody does, can somehow hurt what you're doing in your home. But I think it's a misguided principle, I think it's becoming less and less important. I have an 11-year-old son and the coolest thing about him is that if he's walking through New York and he sees two guys holding hands, he thinks nothing of it. I was having a conversation with him once and I was like, "So, do you have any girls at school that you like?" He was like, "no." And I was like, "Any boys?" And he's like, "no." And I was like, "It's okay." And he's like, "Oh I know, but no." And I'm like, "All right, right on."
T: You know I always ask myself why other people are so concerned with how I live my life? You know how does my sexual orientation directly affect their lives? Or how does the ability for me to marry another man directly affect their lives? And no one can give you an answer.
RT: Well there is, there really is no answer whatsoever.
T: Right. And I guess I always wonder why someone is so concerned with my life and less concerned with the way they're living their own life.
RT: But I think that we're a country that has overcome --- I'm sorry, we're a country that's in the process of overcoming a lot of these bigotries. You know what I mean? And when I think that, if you were a Jewish person in this country 40 years ago, 50 years ago, or if you were black in this country --- or if you were black in this country today! You know? I mean, I think there are bigger issues than two people who truly love each other. You know, two people that, there have been people who have been together for 20 years and just want to have the same rights afforded to them as a couple that have just met. Got married, you know, today, and they're not even questioned.
T: I completely understand. I spend a lot of my time traveling around the country talking to young people and I always ask them how often the witness incidents of hate in their community and I do not exaggerate when I say 98% of the young people I ask that question to say they witness something on an hourly basis. So on an hourly basis, you know, they witness someone being made to feel less about themselves. So I guess my next question is, what advice or thoughts would you give to a young person who is consistently picked on or bullied?
RT: You know, my first advice I've always given in every situation, when you're that young, is that as much as it seems right then, like those people that make up your social structure, those people that are coming to find out who you are when you're 15 years old --- you're not going to know them in another 10 years. You know what I mean? You don't have to know them now. And as you get older that's not going to change. There's always going to be people that, no matter who you are or what you are, they're going to want to come after something about you. And … if anything, if you're 15 years old and you're gay, when you're 20 years old and you make it through that process, you're going to be a stronger person. You're going to have a much better idea of who you are, I think. I think that someone who has gone their entire life and never had to [do that] --- I don't want people to have to stand up for who they are, but I think it's important that you do. And I think it's also important now that more and more, that the people who are gay now are not just seen as a gay stereotype. Like for a long time you had "Will and Grace," and that could work because you had the gay stereotype that made everybody feel comfortable. Like if you were homophobic you could watch "Will and Grace" and you could say, you know, "Oh well, okay, yeah, well there's a gay I can recognize, I'm okay with that." But now you're starting to see senators and you're seeing people like Barney Frank. And you're going like, "Oh, oh my God, my stereotype has been blown!"
T: I completely agree and that's one of our large messages is that you can be exactly who you want to be, exactly the way that you are. So, you know, you can be a doctor. You can be a lawyer. You can be a politician. You don't have to be The Village People. You know, we're, we're everyday people and I think for us that message is so important because there are young people who honestly don't feel that they're ever going to be what they want to be because their social structure is telling them they're not worth the same things as everyone else. Any thoughts you would give to the bully? The person who is doing the bullying?
RT: Oh, well I mean my first question for somebody --- first I want to go back really quick.
T: Okay.
RT: Because I want to say one thing I think is really important about homophobia. And that is that like sometimes homophobia, just like racism, is so ingrained in somebody that they don't realize that they are homophobic. Like people who will say "I'm not homophobic" but at the same time if you ask them if they're gay, they're highly offended. So I think like if you need --- that's one minor step if we can get past that idea, just have the idea if someone says "hey are you gay?" and you say "No I'm not gay" as opposed to "Ooh no!" That's homophobia, but that's hidden homophobia just like hidden racism. A lot of people don't realize that they're homophobic and I think that there are some people that are on that line that could be, you know, that can be realized. There are just some people who are always going to have hate in their heart and there is nothing that you are going to be able to do about it. But I feel if you're the kid and you're bullying specifically gay people, my first question would be, you know, maybe you're gay. To be young, to be that venomous about something --- tt made me think of, you know, I can't help but think of Harvey Milk. And the politician who shot him. You know who --- the only thing I can go by, because I wasn't there obviously and I'm going by the film, but just how obviously upset this guy was and tormented within himself. And I think there's so many of those people who have that. I mean how many people who are homophobic in the South that are probably gay themselves and just can't come out and they are completely eaten up by it?
T: That's the number one excuse I get from high school kids as to why they don't stand up for people who are being bullied is because they don't want people to think they're one of them. You know, and the fact of the matter is, so what if someone thinks that?
RT: Everyone thinks, everyone thinks that I am gay. You know what I mean?
T: Well and it doesn't bother you, which is a very powerful message to send to young people. You know, our question is "So what if someone thinks that about you? You know who you are," is our response.
RT: I would be much more upset if someone were to think I were homophobic than to think I was homosexual.
T: Oh. Oh that's great. Great --- not great [laughter] but that's a nice way to, to frame the issue. And I know you're busy so I'll ask you one more question and then I'll let you get ready to go to Australia, I believe that's where Lee said you were heading.
RT: Yeah heading down under.
T: What responsibility do you feel that folks in the entertainment industry have to use their voice to make the world a safer place?
RT: You know I think responsibility might be a harsh word. Because I think that sometimes people will do it just because of their job --- it would be disingenuous. I think that if you have a public voice and you have a passion, then you have a responsibility to share that passion. You know what I mean? I don't think just because you're in the public eye or a sports figure or a musician, that you have a right to do anything other than, you know, speak your mind. But I think if you're on that side like Cyndi Lauper who do amazing things I think --- then it is your responsibility. You know? But I do think if you're in the public eye you do have a responsibility to understand that when you say hateful things that you could be misconstrued. You know what I mean? I think that sometimes, just like anybody, if you're saying something in public, you need to know your words are being transmitted out. And so you should, everybody has a responsibility to think about what they say before they say it, you know.
T: That's great, that's great. And I want to thank you for taking the time to chat and I know that Judy sends her regards and wanted to, wanted me to say thank you as well for, for giving us some of your time.
RT: For years, for years I mean, and I know it was sparked by a horrific tragedy, but you guys have done some amazing things. And so anything that I can ever do, and I'm here in New York, so anything I could ever do to help you guys please let me know and I'm always there.
T: That's wonderful. Thank you so much Rob, and have a safe trip to Australia.
RT: Thanks so much. Have a good one. Bye.
T: You too. Bye.
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